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Author Topic: 94 3500HD 4x4 Cummins 6bt conversion  (Read 13747 times)
AZTimT
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Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« on: March 23, 2010, 11:02:33 AM »

Well, after planning and collecting parts steadily since 2004 I have finally started my cummins conversion projects. This one is the first of 5, the rest are 4bt cummins all into straight axle chevy 4x4's from 77-95. Those will get their own threads as I get to them.

Disclaimer: I am a function over form kind of guy so some of my work may not look as pretty as others but I haven't seen too many instances of pretty increasing reliability which is my primary goal. Plus, pretty usually costs more and with as many as I am doing and this economy I am on a limited budget. Wink

Here is the rig as it started out when I brought it home. 




It was a 454/NV4500/BorgWarner4470 with a Dana 70 front axle, 37 spline Dana 80 rear axle, 5.13 gears and a 15,000 lb GVW Smiley
A peek under the hood at the old gas guzzler. 6 MPG and almost no torque off the line just wasn't going to work.


Pretty much all that is changing is the engine, transmission (Dodge version of same tranny with GM main/tail shaft), gear ratio to 4.10 or 3.73, driveshafts due to trans relocating 4" back and all of the engine/dash wiring harnesses switched out from a 93 diesel 3500HD parts truck I have. It sure is nice having spare parts on hand! Scored an upgrade from AM to AM/FM radio and dual batteries of this guy too.







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94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
AZTimT
Single Axle Driver
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Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 11:11:59 AM »

Here is a pic of the 93 VE pumped cummins that is going into it before I cleaned it off.


Here it is with the new Valair clutch & flywheel bolted up.




Here is the Cummins, 98 Dodge NV4500HD with Chevy 4x4 mainshaft and tailshaft and the Borg Warner 4470 all bolted up and ready to go in.
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94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
AZTimT
Single Axle Driver
*
Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 11:36:02 AM »

The Monroe conversion crossmember is a massive 1/2" thick jobber. It was not wide enough and too high up to allow the cummins to fit in the engine compartment without poking through front of the hood.  Shocked


A measurement of the crossmember on the rolled 93 dodge parts truck that helped me figure out where to notch the motor mount pads for the 1st generation dodge cummins style mounts.


After a little bit of chopping, welding, drilling and bolting I achieved the desired results with only 3 tries at stabbing the motor in there. Needed to lower the crossmember 1 1/2", cut out a section from the forward portion of the flat area and remove about 2" from each of the motor mount pads.


This is a pic more for my reference than anything else, but it is the part number for the new motor mounts I used.  Wink


Logged

94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
AZTimT
Single Axle Driver
*
Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 12:16:03 PM »

This is the engine compartment ready for the engine/tranny/t-case to go in except for the spray on sound deadener on the firewall. It's been raining a lot here in AZ for the last 5 weeks and so my progress is not as quick as I would like and some things get rushed a bit on the bad days.


This is after I set it in but before I fixed the KDP (Killer Dowel Pin). You can see one of my home made motor mount brackets on the block. I swapped out the vacuum pumped power steering unit with one of the non-vacuum ones from one of my breadvan 4bt's since this body style apparently needs no vacuum for the dash. Gotta love hydroboost!  Cheesy


This is what the timing cover looks like when it's off.


And this is what is behind it.


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94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
AZTimT
Single Axle Driver
*
Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 12:33:57 PM »

This post is just about the KDP fix. If the KDP works it's way out into the timing gears it can cost over $2,000 to fix, so it is well worth a couple of hours of work, a small piece of aluminum or sheetmetal and some light grinding with a dremel. It is the black pin northwest of the bolt between those two gears.


This is what it looks like after you tap the KDP in until it bottoms out, remove the bolt and then grind away a little material to allow flat access to the KDP.


I cut a small piece of aluminum scrap about 1/8" thick and drilled it on one end so I could re-use the bolt to hold it on. I also tightened all of the bolts that I could reach to 18 ft-lbs with loctite as it is cheap insurance.


After cleaning everything up I painted the cover, installed a new front seal in it and bolted it up with a new gasket. I only paint the parts I actually remove, but I marked the TDC side of balancer instead of painting the whole thing. This will help with timing it later. I suppose I could have painted the block, but it really wasn't that bad and the old black is good enough for me with the purple valve and timing covers.

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94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
ED-NY
Administrator
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Age: 63
Location: Champlain, NY
Posts: 658



« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 12:55:47 PM »

AZTimT
 
Thanks for the informative modification info. Can't wait until you get it fired up!  That KDP fix is a neat little trick..that alone is worth an entry into the tech section.  Once you get the full conversion done..we can archive it for future reference!

I'm kinda curious about the electric pusher fan on the 454 radiator ...was that an add on? Never noticed one on a 3500 before..did it do any good?

Ed
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AZTimT
Single Axle Driver
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Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 03:32:12 PM »

On the KDP fix I forgot to mention that if you make a mess grinding you can flush all of the metal shavings down into the oil pan. Then you can just run the motor for about 15-30 seconds or so and then do a fresh oil change. I'm starting this truck off with all new fluids stem to stern so I know approximately what wears how fast from my using it.

The pusher fan is a new addon and cost about $300 from GM according to the previous owner. It says GM P/N 15717423 right on top of it. It has a GM style connector for power as well. I don't know how well it will or won't work as it wasn't and still isn't wired in yet. It looks nice though.  Roll Eyes

I'm getting excited to hear it run the first time myself. I'm down to finishing the floor where it was cut out, wiring, fuel lines, exhaust, front clip and fluid fills/changes and I should be able to hear it run and or drive it. I wish I could say I've made more progress than this since Feb 4th when I started on it, but it's getting there one day at a time. I'm picking up the new rear driveshaft for it today and I need to get better wiring diagrams than the factory service manual has on it so that I can blend the dodge engine wiring into the chevy cab wiring correctly. I like how the on the Cummins you disconnect 3 electrical connections and everything can come out in one piece.
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94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
ED-NY
Administrator
3500HD Hero
*****
Age: 63
Location: Champlain, NY
Posts: 658



« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 06:50:35 PM »

AZTimT

At the cost of embarrassing myself, what type of injection does that 93 Cummins have, electronic or mechanical? If electronic, I would assume you'll wire in the Cummins ECM? I just parted out a 95 3500HD diesel if you need a lift pump, used but works..you can have it.

Wish you were closer, I'd trade my 31 gallon diesel tank for your 31 gallon gas tank!

Ed
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 07:08:52 PM by ED-NY » Logged
merlin5577
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Location: Taunton, MA
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 08:28:43 PM »

AZTimT,

Awesome write up and even better pictures! Thanks for sharing.

Ed,

Its a Bosch VE pump which IIRC is all mechanical. Very simple, and very reliable design.
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-Robert.
My Trucks;
2003 Chevrolet Silverado K2500HD 4X4 6.6L w/Allison 1000
1997 GMC Suburban K1500 4X4 5.7L w/4L60-E
"If you dont stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."
ED-NY
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3500HD Hero
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Age: 63
Location: Champlain, NY
Posts: 658



« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 04:08:38 PM »

Thanks....that should make the wiring a bit easier, I will have an extra 3500HD diesel ECM shortly.

Ed
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BigBlockV6GMC
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Location: Madison,WI
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AMC & GMC powered !


« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 05:48:13 PM »

95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63 <- say the 4L80E any good ? wanna sell it ?


Mike
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1962 GMC K3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390.
1977 Ford F350.
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1992 GTA Trans AM.
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AZTimT
Single Axle Driver
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Age: 36
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 19

K3500HD from when it wasn't just a sales gimmick!


« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 11:30:34 PM »

It's not embarrassing at all to ask Ed. Heck, there are several different ones used over the years and I only know the VE pump, A-pump, and P-pump versions as they are all that interest me. I hate computerized diesels as it takes away from the simplicity and reliability that I love about them. Merlin is right, this one has the VE rotary pump which is mechanically injected. It will start and run with just a battery hooked up to the starter and the shutoff solenoid on the injection pump. Or you can switch it to a cable control and only need power to the starter to run it. The rest of the accessories are all "as needed for convenience"  Cheesy

I'd sure like to switch tanks with you, but as I understand it there's an easier and cheaper way to do it... switch sending units as the tanks are supposed to be the same. Much smaller package to mail and just as effective so if you want to do that let me know. I know the fuel pump was working fine before I started the swap.

95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63 <- say the 4L80E any good ? wanna sell it ?


Mike

I don't know what shape it's in but I suspect pretty good. I bought it complete not running with 61k and some change original miles. The motor was taken apart around the intake area and I haven't tinkered with putting it back together yet. I was told that something around the injection pump area was worked on and replaced but not finished being put back together.

I haven't gotten so far as to deciding about selling it. Are you asking about just the tranny or the whole truck?

No pics for today, but I accomplished a fair amount today. The rear driveshaft is in, the power steering is hooked up (except for the front clip part where the cooler is) the wiring to the starter, cab and batteries is straightened out and the flooring around the relocated shifter finished today. Oh, and the exhaust downpipe is on too. I got lucky and don't have to do anything to it from the Dodge design.

Still to do is the front clip/radiator/power steering cooler combo, the wiring for the alternator, a/c (summer's coming) along with new hoses for it, all of the gauges, add a pre turbo pyro, fabricate the exhaust/muffler setup to go up the passenger side of the cab behind the door, setup the second battery with an isolator, change out the bench seat for a more comfortable setup that isn't torn, have a longer front driveshaft made, re-gear to 4.10's on both axles (including installing the 37 spline dana 80 detroit in the back that I already have) and make sure the trailer brake/wiring is good to go for an upcoming road trip to Montana next month. I'm sure there's more, but that is all I can think of a half hour before midnight.  Roll Eyes
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94 K3500HD (factory Monroe upfit) short wheel base 9' bed 454/NV4500HD/NP261HD/D70 frt/D80 rear 5.13's soon to be Cummins powered with 3.73's.
93 C3500HD long wheel base parts truck 14' bed 6.5(gone)/NV4500HD/D80 4.63
95 C3500HD medium wheel base 11' bed 6.5/4L80E/D80 4.63
& too many more to list
ED-NY
Administrator
3500HD Hero
*****
Age: 63
Location: Champlain, NY
Posts: 658



« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 10:41:29 AM »


I'd sure like to switch tanks with you, but as I understand it there's an easier and cheaper way to do it... switch sending units as the tanks are supposed to be the same. Much smaller package to mail and just as effective so if you want to do that let me know. I know the fuel pump was working fine before I started the swap.


Was only half kidding about trading tanks, I now have two diesel tanks in trucks being converted to gas. Did some checking a while back and posted this in the tech section:

31 gallon rear tanks

GM14F  (gasoline)  "pan in tank"

GM14G  (diesel)  90-91
GM14E  (diesel)  95

Appears that GM14F has a pan in the tank (per product description)...the diesel units may not?  I assumed the pan was to prevent the sending unit float from bounching around....but the diesel sending has a float also...so I'm still not sure what the difference is between diesel and gas tanks.  The sending unit mounting "externally" appears the same..ie lock-ring, slots etc 


If you need a diesel sending unit let me know, I just bought a new gas sending unit on eBay and will be running a high pressure TPI fuel pump anyway...the OEM 454 pump won't put out the pressure I need for my TPI engine.

I also have one of those real narrow (diesel) tanks that mount between the drive shaft and frame...but don't even know its capacity or if a gas sending unit will work in that one....most likely will.

Ed









[/quote]
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outkast kustoms
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Location: st.louis
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 06:32:26 PM »

looks good bud if u have any questions i have done this exact job in by 98 hd towtruck and love it!! the 93 intercooler and rad r pefect cuz they fit between the headlights and u can keep ur condenser in the stock location 314 280 6535 my name is travis any thing u need to know ive got it
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thirdstreettito
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It's whats for dinner!


« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 10:50:02 AM »

Need updates!
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~Bradley~

1981 VW Rabbit Caddy Pickup 1.7L/020 4-Speed
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