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Welcome to the 3500HD.com forum created October 2009

Author Topic: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals  (Read 2072 times)

Rey

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Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« on: October 31, 2016, 10:28:50 PM »
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and just got me a 2000 3500HD 6.5L.  I have been having trouble with the (ICM?) The previous owner relocated it to the fire wall and has some type of homemade heat sink on it.  I wiggle the harness going to it and the engine sputters and shuts off.  It restarts fine but any bump or wiggle will shut the truck off !!!  It's my first time owning a Diesel and can't find any literature on these trucks !!   Has anyone made a complete conversion to a manual pump instead of this PMD ??  I know i will need the injection pump it self, accelerator pedal, cable and brackets to mount it, and i think someone mentioned the lines from a manual pump are smaller than the PMD version.  Links to the manuals and conversions (if anyone has done it) will be greatly appreciated !!!


  - Rey- 

ED-NY

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 11:33:06 PM »
Welcome to the forum...one of the diesel folks should jump in shortly.

someotherguy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 10:08:15 AM »
Hi Rey,

Sounds like someone relocated your PMD (pump-mounted-driver) to help keep it cool.  They can still be problematic.

If you're really interested in doing the mechanical swap to increase your reliability, I've got most of the parts you would need to do this job except I sold the pump.  Here's my old ad -

http://3500hd.com/index.php?topic=724.0

I'm no 6.5td expert and the reason I have the parts is I never got around to doing the swap, though many have.  I sold the truck first.  When I put all the parts up, someone just wanted the pump, so I sold it separately.  Since the pump is gone I would sell the remaining parts for $250 + shipping.

Richard
06 Silverado ISS / 06 Silverado SS / 06 300C SRT8

Rey

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 06:38:47 PM »
I really wanna do the conversion, only thing is, I have a 4L80E transmission.  If I change out the pump, will it have any effect on the shifting with that transmission ? Im not 100% on this but I thought about it and wanna be sure. If you're completely sure it will work and have no effect on the shifting, then I am definitely interested.

GM Guy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2016, 06:51:19 PM »
Welcome to the site!

First off, 2000 is a very good year for the 6.5L, you allready have the best air cleaner and cooling system offered from the factory.

There are a few upgrades you can do, but essentially GM figured out the 6.5L by the last year and a half, so all you really need to do is get maintenance up to date. It is amazing how many things can be wrong with a 6.5L and not trip the CEL, and its also amazing how well they run when everything is working correctly.

As far as your PMD:

THe PMD is to drive the fuel solenoid in the back of the IP. By doing this, it generates heat. It has to disappate this heat, or else it fails.

The OEM idea was to put it on the side of the IP and use return fuel flow as a heat dump. It works well when running, but only marginal when the engine is shut down.

Many aftermarket kits say to keep it in the engine bay. THis is wrong, and will cause PMD failure quicker than factory.

Many aftermarket kits also come with a imported wiring harness that is undersized and overall junk. I suspect you have this kit unfortunately.

THe best solution is to start fresh with a complete new kit with a wiring harness and a new PMD and heat sink.

www.leroydiesel.com and www.heathdiesel.com both sell excellent kits. Leroy's is quite a bit cheaper and his mounting is a little more flexible.

ONLY mount it in the bumper or grille. it has to be out of the engine bay.


The next things to do for the 6.5L is to check out the most common areas of neglect.

1) oil cooler lines. GM cooler lines dont last forever, and when they have been vibrating around for thousands of miles, they can actually blow out of the block and rarely does a person notice in time to save the engine. either get new GM lines (costly, and will fail again) or get the line kit from Leroydiesel.com

2) Harmonic damper and pulley damper. If these two items are bad, crankshaft breakage can occur. not good.
The harmonic damper has to have both the inner hub and outer ring flush, with no cracked or bulging rubber. If anything is not right, replace. either use AC Delco from Rockauto.com, or the fancy Fluidampr for a lifetime solution if the engine is in good shape. Leroy also sells the Fluidampr.

3) lift pump. a bad lift pump can starve the injection pump for fuel, shortening its life. on a 2000, simply turn the key on and crack the bleeder screw on top of the filter loose and see if it shoots fuel out. if not, LP is likely bad and needs replaced. Some of the high dollar fuel systems are nice (FASS Airdog, Raptor pump, etc), but I frankly just get the slightly higher than factory output AC Delco EP158 lift pump. It is actually the OEM one for a 92-93 6.5L turbo with the mechanical pump. Best of all, its dimensions are identical to the OE pump, so it threads and plugs right in. Pack a spare, as the transfer pump from the rear tank to the front is the same pump! Dont forget new o-rings on the lines.

For the auto transmission to work right, along with other engine systems, the engine needs to be able to reach operating temperature. If the t-stats are stuck open and she runs cool, get a new pair of AC Delco t-stats and get them in. MPGs will go up, TCC will lock, etc.

Any other questions feel free to ask!

GM Guy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2016, 06:57:23 PM »
So basically I hate to mess up a sale, but IMO for the cost of converting to a DB2 mechanical when you have a electronic transmission, the cost to convert is far greater than to just maintain the current system. the turbo is also vaccum actuated, computer controlled, so a DB2 swap would mess that up too.

If supplied with a clean, plentiful fuel supply, the DS4 is actually a longer life pump than the DB2.

I personally have 2 DB2 rigs, dad has 3 as well, and IMO they are not all they are cracked up to be. MPG is worse, torque is less, worse cold starts, shorter pump life, etc.

I have another half dozen electronic 6.5Ls, only a few currently on the road, and I much prefer them. smoother, more powerful, better cold starts, better mpgs, etc.

RPF207

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 09:12:34 PM »
I remember when I first got my 6.5 HD I would turn the key on and hear what sounded like a pump building pressure while I waited for the wait to start light to go out. Sounded like a tiny little thumping. I don't hear this anymore and while I haven't had the 6.5 plugged in lately at only 34* at night, it does seem to not start as easy as it did when I got it... is this a bad lift pump?
1999 chevy HD 4x4 135.5" 6.5 nv4500 bw4470 Dana 70 HP 10 lug front

Due to recent budget cuts the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off

Rey

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 10:13:01 PM »
GM Guy,

Great advice !!  I have checked all the previously mentioned.  I did crack the bleeder on top of the filter and fuel started spilling out.  You mentioned to relocate the pmd to the front grille.  I was actually thinking of bringing it into the cab, and cut a hole in the a/c duct and have heat sink cooled off.... Just like with the blower motor resistor.  What do you think of that ??  If it's a bad idea, ill just mount it on the grille like you said.  Today I noticed the truck will shut off on a cold start if I don't accelerate the truck for like 5 seconds, @ 1500RPM... then I can let go the throttle and it will stay on... till the pmd starts heating up and then the wire comes loose and shuts off....   I will keep the existing system and not do the conversion after all.... but i will replace the PMD... Gonna get the kit that comes with the PMD, Harness, and the larger heat sink... If i come up with anything else I'll be sure to ask...


Anything on the repair manuals and owners manual ????   Anybody ???


RPF 207,

I too hear the in-line pump thumping loudly while waiting for the (wait to start) light to go off... Not sure if it means a bad pump though...

Rey

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someotherguy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2016, 11:27:36 AM »
So basically I hate to mess up a sale
Not at all...just throwing the option out there.  Different folks like different solutions. :)

Thanks for all the info you've provided, should be helpful to many.

Richard
06 Silverado ISS / 06 Silverado SS / 06 300C SRT8

GM Guy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 09:24:53 PM »
I remember when I first got my 6.5 HD I would turn the key on and hear what sounded like a pump building pressure while I waited for the wait to start light to go out. Sounded like a tiny little thumping. I don't hear this anymore and while I haven't had the 6.5 plugged in lately at only 34* at night, it does seem to not start as easy as it did when I got it... is this a bad lift pump?

Correct, sounds like your lift pump died. If you dont want to put a big system on and want to stay stock, get the EP158 AC Delco lift pump, as it fits in place of the OEM unit, but flows more. make sure and put new o-rings in at the same time.

IMO its a great idea to check lift pump pressure at every oil change. all you need is a 10-15 PSI guage with a short length of tubing, and connect it to the t-valve water drain (after purging a few ounces of possibly dirty fuel out first) for a temporary mount, fire it up and make sure its all OK, then shut the valve and disconnect till next time.

It is pretty important to keep fuel pressure at a positive reading at all times to prevent from ruining the injection pump.

GM Guy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2016, 09:31:48 PM »
GM Guy,

Great advice !!  I have checked all the previously mentioned.  I did crack the bleeder on top of the filter and fuel started spilling out.  You mentioned to relocate the pmd to the front grille.  I was actually thinking of bringing it into the cab, and cut a hole in the a/c duct and have heat sink cooled off.... Just like with the blower motor resistor.  What do you think of that ??  If it's a bad idea, ill just mount it on the grille like you said.  Today I noticed the truck will shut off on a cold start if I don't accelerate the truck for like 5 seconds, @ 1500RPM... then I can let go the throttle and it will stay on... till the pmd starts heating up and then the wire comes loose and shuts off....   I will keep the existing system and not do the conversion after all.... but i will replace the PMD... Gonna get the kit that comes with the PMD, Harness, and the larger heat sink... If i come up with anything else I'll be sure to ask...


Anything on the repair manuals and owners manual ????   Anybody ???


RPF 207,

I too hear the in-line pump thumping loudly while waiting for the (wait to start) light to go off... Not sure if it means a bad pump though...

If you have fuel puking out when you open the bleeder, then that is a good sign. it is best to check actual pressure, but knowing it has positive pressure is better than nothing.

As far as the PMD, they are a waterproof unit, people for grins have put them in a 5 gallon bucket of water and fired up the truck, so a guy doesnt have to worry about it getting rain spray out in the grille.

Plus, there is limited airflow in the cab, and in the summer I dont think I would want a foot warmer, so IMO a cab mount is not a good solution, I think either the grille or the bumper. For the bumper mount, you can use one of the license plate bracket bolt holes with a longer bolt if you want to tuck it out of the way if you dont want to be looking at it. I personally do this myself.

Great decision on a complete new setup, as when things get cooked , the PMD is never the same, and when in doubt about the cable, assume the previous owner got a imported cheapie.

SlowBoat

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2017, 09:55:06 PM »
My cousin ordered a set of factory service manuals for his 1999 3500HD a few years back.  I will check to see where he ordered them from and post the information.
2001 Chevrolet 3500HD 159.5 WB, 8.1L, 5spd, 4.63
2000 GMC Sierra 3500HD 159.5 WB, 6.5L, 5spd, 5.13
1996 Chevrolet 3500HD 159.5 WB, 6.5L, AT
1995 Chevrolet 30HD Box Van, Bad gas engine, AT
1997 GMC Sierra 3500 CC, DRW, 6.5L, AT, 3.73

someotherguy

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Re: Service, Technical, Parts and Owner's Manuals
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2017, 07:53:32 PM »
www.helminc.com are the people reprinting the original manuals.  They're pricey as hell.  I did a quick look though and it seems they've redone the site and I don't see a lot of options for the later year GMT400 trucks. :(

If you can luck into them, a good used set off eBay can sometimes be had cheaper, but still a good chunk of change.  I just checked and found several examples of the 1998 C/K service manual sets (4 volumes) for around $100 and change, which isn't too bad.

Nothing like factory manuals.

Richard
06 Silverado ISS / 06 Silverado SS / 06 300C SRT8

 


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