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Author Topic: C/K 3500-HD 4x4 Information Archive.  (Read 8418 times)
Raymo
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Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« on: December 18, 2010, 01:05:25 PM »

Hey guys,

Since only a handfull of these workhorses were converted by a few companies, the information on them is VERY scarce, and trying to google the information is beyond frustrating. So I would like to compile as much information on the factory upfit units, as well as other converted chassis' into one place.

So, I will add as much information as I can, that I have gathered from months of searching, and I strongly encourage other members to share their information as well.

I also ask that members with converted units try to get pictures of their conversions, as there are next to none on the internet.

I, myself have a 4x4 converted HD that I built, and will post information on my set up as well.

Please, if any of this information seems incomplete, please fill in the blanks and I will put all of the information together.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 01:26:13 PM by Raymo » Logged

'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
Raymo
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3500HD Driver
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Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 01:23:51 PM »

Who built the converted HD's?

As I understand, there were THREE main companies to convert the C3500-HD;

Monroe Truck Equipment- A majority of the C3500-HD's I have encountered have been done by this company. They upfit using mainly a Spring-Under axle design, that allowed the truck to stay just a few inches higher than a factory 3500-HD. They are well known for their Open knuckle, 10-lug hub Dana 70 front axles.

Tulsa Truck- I've only seen a few of Tulsa's 4x4 C3500-HD's. In my searching, it appears they mainly converted Service Body trucks for power companies, using a Dana 60 front, and 8-lug 19.5" wheels. Often with a Spring-Over design, which leaves the front of the truck 7" higher than factory.

Quigley 4x4 Conversions- Now this company has been said to use an 8-lug Dana 70 on their trucks, but I have yet to verify because searching for a Quigley C3500-HD 4x4 returns mostly their famous Van Conversions. If anyone can confirm a Quigley C3500-HD, please let me know so I can update it.
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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
Raymo
Global Moderator
3500HD Driver
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Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2010, 01:53:42 PM »

This information was provided by our very own, PLASTICBADGER, the owner of a highly modified, ex-military 4x4 3500-HD. Thanks again for taking the time to provide this information.

"As far as I have been able to work out the trucks came into the UK as standard 1999 6.5TD chassis cabs. The conversion was then carried out by Penman Specialist Vehicles in Dumfries, Scotland. They carried out the following work:

4x4 conversion uses a Borg Warner 4407 transfer case fitted to the factory 2WD 4L80E on a custom fabricated steel tail shaft housing which is longer than the factory K3500 tailshaft housing, a front Dana 70 axle with Warn free wheeling hubs is used with the same 10 lugs as the rear, rather than 5.  Stock 19.5" rims are used and fitted with Bridgestone 225/75/19.5 tires.
Right hand drive conversion using stock steering column and box in a custom fabricated box on the Right hand frame rail
The armoured body consisted of a complete fabricated body from the firewall back. The floor, firewall and some other structure was steel, the main flat panels were Kevlar/balsa sandwich, built to protect the crew from RPG attack.
The wheel base was shortened to 120"
Other kit included a big push bumper and grill gaurd, GRP wheel arch flares, dual zone air con system, windsheild protection grill, windsheild solvent wash system, sirens, loud hailer, and fire supression system.

About 110 of these trucks entered service in 2000, but the Northern Ireland conflict was easing meaning they weren't used much and were retired in late 2007. There was some talk of re-deploying them to Iraq, but it never happened.

The officail name in the MOD is 'APV 2' code named 'Tavern', but they were know by the army as 'Postman Pat's Van' or 'The Reverse Tardis' as they were huge on the outsde and had little interior space.

When sold by the MOD they were stripped of their armoured body and sold as rolling chassis with the front clip and firewall only. When sold they had between 5000 and 30000 miles on them. They sold off for between about $800 and $2000 each."


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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
plasticbadger
Dually Driver
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Age: 34
Location: Southampton - UK
Posts: 103



« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2010, 01:07:52 AM »

To add to the information kindly posted above by Raymo:

The Penman 'Tavern' conversion uses an open knuckle Dana 70 fitted spring over on the standard HD front suspension. The front axle has Warn free wheel hubs. This gives about a 5" lift over the stock drop beam front axle. The rear axle is the stock Dana 80 and I believe they both have 5.13 gears, but I haven't properly checked yet.

The transfer case is fitted with a rear parking brake and is shifted by the regular K3500 manual shifter.
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1999 3500HD 6.5TD 4x4 ex-armoured car - rebuild project
1997 K3500 6.5TD ex-ambulance - parts car for the above, now parted out and sold on
Raymo
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Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2010, 08:14:34 AM »

Ah yes, thank you for mentioning gears as I had forgotten.

All of the 4x4 3500-HD's should be equipped with a 5.13 gear be it a Gasoline or Diesel engine.

This is because of the oddball 4.63 gear not being available for a Dana 60 or 70. But, however, the 5.13 is readily available for the 60, 70 and 80.

Usually a gear manufacturer won't produce a gear ratio unless the run will go into the thousands, due to the tooling and design involved.
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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
Raymo
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3500HD Driver
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Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 08:50:26 AM »

Here are some examples of the two suspension types used in the 4x4 conversion. Notice the difference in the distance from the lip of the fender to the top of the tire.

This is a Spring Under configuration, and while it raises the front slightly, there usually isn't a need to raise the rear of the truck as the front levels the entire truck. This uses the factory spring, with extended shackles in the front and the rear perch is modified to lower the end of the leaf spring. I'm in the planning and parts gathering stage to do this suspension on my truck.










And this is a Spring Over, the factory suspension stays in tact and an axle is simply mated to the springs like a traditional solid axle truck. Brackets are made to retain the sway bar and panhard bar. This is currently how my HD is configured.

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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
plasticbadger
Dually Driver
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Age: 34
Location: Southampton - UK
Posts: 103



« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 01:15:08 PM »

Here's the front end view of the Penman converted Tavern;

You can see the spring over on what I think are factory springs. The tie bar is under the springs, while the drag link can be see going from the upper RH steering arm down to the steering box (right hand drive set up). The stock track bar is retained, as is the sway bar.



I'll get some more pics of the transmission, drive shafts and front suspension when the snow melts!
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1999 3500HD 6.5TD 4x4 ex-armoured car - rebuild project
1997 K3500 6.5TD ex-ambulance - parts car for the above, now parted out and sold on
plasticbadger
Dually Driver
***
Age: 34
Location: Southampton - UK
Posts: 103



« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2010, 09:30:49 AM »

Right here's some more photos, it's hard to get good shots of the HD now the cab is back on:

To start, here's the factory 4L80E/Borg Warner 4401 on a K3500 Dually (1997 diesel), you can see the fixed yoke output on the transfer case and the short cast adaptor between the trans and transfer case, it would be relatively easy to swap this setup onto any 4L80 equiped HD and fabricate a transfer case mounted parking brake:




And here's the back of the 4L80E/Borg Warner 4407 on my HD, showing the transfer case mounted parking brake and the longer fabricated adaptor between the 2WD trans and the transfer case, notice the steeply angled drive shafts front and rear:





And here's the front axle and suspension on my HD, which I beleive is mostly stock with the custom built Dana 70 in place of the factory drop beam:



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1999 3500HD 6.5TD 4x4 ex-armoured car - rebuild project
1997 K3500 6.5TD ex-ambulance - parts car for the above, now parted out and sold on
crewcab 4x4 3500hd
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Location: Hartville Ohio
Posts: 5



« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 03:37:18 PM »

My crew cab was put on my truck by Monroe truck and then shipped to Tulsa truck for the drive train. My is 6.5 liter diesel mated to NV 4500 mated to NP 205 transfer case, it is one of the odd one you are talking about. i have had a heck of a time as the special coupler between trans and transfer case stripped out. and cant get another one 35 spline two drive hd trans to 29 spline input on 205 case. so I'm in the process of divorce mount 205 case right know. Are you positive that the coversion were all 5.13 gear ratios?
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Raymo
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3500HD Driver
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Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 08:24:35 AM »

Yes, they were 5.13 due to the fact that there isn't a 4.63 available for the 60 or 70 used in the front.

That is, of course, unless they've been changed somewhere along the line. For example when I converted mine I went with 4.10's, and I'll be dropping to a 3.55.

With these oddballs anything is possible really, I'm just trying to nail down the "most common" due to the lack of information available.

What axle did your Tulsa upfit use in the front?
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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
bjreeve
Single Axle Driver
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Posts: 1


« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 12:28:52 PM »

i own two of the conversions with the 4l80e with borg warner 4407 and 4470. the borg warner is the biggest piece of junk out there. the conversion company instead of changing the internal shaft of the 4l80e to 4wd shaft they use the factory 2wd shaft  and customed made adapter to the borg warner either the shaft was tearing up or the borg warner was always coming apart internal i finally went to dealer bought the shaft for a 4l80e tranny and bought the adapter for np241 ton set up and got a left side np241 for a dodge all bolted up directly no customizing. never had a problem since.
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Raymo
Global Moderator
3500HD Driver
*****
Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 02:23:09 PM »

Thanks for speaking up!

I had wondered if there were more like what Plasticbadger posted. That is odd to me that they would go through the trouble of making an adapter when a normal 1 ton came with that trans and case combo...

Glad to hear you got it worked out, I know of a few diesel pullers putting big power through 241's that they've made work for them. Also, there's another member that has had issues with his trans and case some time ago...

Seems the old adapters must be a common issue.
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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
someotherguy
3500HD Hero
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Age: 44
Location: Texas
Posts: 667



« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 02:41:35 PM »

Man, what a smokin' deal on those low-mileage MOD trucks.  Even though they're heavily modified and it takes a ton of work and parts to make them a "normal" truck again, even if you just look at them in sheer parts value for the money it's incredible.

Richard
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94 GMC C1500 SLE / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects
Raymo
Global Moderator
3500HD Driver
*****
Age: 26
Location: Port Huron Area, MI
Posts: 224



« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2011, 07:02:05 PM »

No doubt. If I wasn't positive I'd be the victim of spousal abuse/homicide there would be one on a boat with my name on it.
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'94 3500-HD, Cummins, Getrag, NP205. Shortend rear frame with a Pickup Bed. Dana 60 front, stock 80 rear.
'93 K1500 GMC
plasticbadger
Dually Driver
***
Age: 34
Location: Southampton - UK
Posts: 103



« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 11:48:08 PM »

They all disappeared from sale shortly after I bought mine. There were still 20 to 30 in the yard when I picked mine up, then 4 weeks later when I went back to pick up a Land Rover they'd all gone. A guy bought 10-12 and then re-sold some (which is were I think both Barn and Hybrid88 got theirs from). There's got to be more floating about still in the same state they were released in, shippiing to the East Coast would only be about $1500.
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1999 3500HD 6.5TD 4x4 ex-armoured car - rebuild project
1997 K3500 6.5TD ex-ambulance - parts car for the above, now parted out and sold on
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